Interview with Dr Mathew Dan

There is a place named Palode in Thiruvananthapuram, roughly 40 km from here, situated on the slopes of the Western Ghats. That is where the Jawaharlal Nehru Tropical Botanic Garden and Research Institute (JNTGBRI) is located. When I went there for the first time to purchase saplings, I heard about Dr Mathew Dan and also learnt that saplings were on sale. Strangely, although Thiruvananthapuram city has many plant nurseries and public gardens, and most people either have gardens or do farming in their compounds, not many come to TBGRI to buy saplings. No other institution produces more number of saplings.  It has more than 5,000 species of plants. The residents of Thiruvananthapuram go to the beach or visit the zoo but don’t go to TGBRI. Is it because of its aura as a research institution or because of people’s ignorance? I don’t know. Among all the scientists there, it was Dr Mathew Dan who helped me a lot. The institute has several varieties of bamboo and Dr Dan introduced me to the division in charge of it. When I thought of launching the Miyawaki Project, I consulted him first. He came over to see my plot, pointed out several varieties of plants growing here, advised me to have as many varieties as possible, and when we faced many reverses, encouraged us by saying such setbacks are common. He has been in this field of botanical research for 34 years. Right now, he is engaged in studying the truth value of traditional wisdom regarding medicinal properties of certain plants. Sir, can you tell us about your research field?

Plant conservation is one of the major aims of TGBRI. My particular field is medicinal and aromatic plants. So I contribute towards maximizing the Institute’s collection of such plants growing in Kerala, the Western Ghats and other tropical areas, conserving them and spreading awareness about them among the public. In fact, our motto is Conservation and Education. Giving leadership to research work in allied subjects is another of my responsibilities.

What was your Ph. D. research on?

The study of plants of the ginger family growing in south India. The Zingiberaceae family to which famous aromatic herbs like ginger, turmeric, cardamom and others belong. Cardamom belongs to the ginger family although there is no similarity in appearance. According to the latest research, there are about 65 different species belonging to the ginger family in south India alone. Most of them are neither known to anyone directly nor have been subjected to study. My research work was to track them down, identify their chemical composition, find out the chemicals that could be distilled, and make a classification of plants based on that. My area was Chemo-taxonomy of Family Zingiberacea.

My knowledge of the medicinal value of plants comes from practical experience. On advice from physicians I would concoct certain medicines using some herbs, and gather information if they were effective. You have done research in this field all these years. To what extent, do you think, is our traditional knowledge of the medicinal value of plants truly scientific?

The knowledge we have today in every field basically comes from traditional sources. Like metallurgy or cloth manufacture. It is the same with the use of plants and medical treatment with plant products.

The traditional manner in which we extract medicines from plants is very crude. Since all of us prefer sophisticated and mechanical procedures like having tablets and injections, we consider the old method unrefined. What is the link between the two? You showed me a plant called Indian madder whose tuber is used by adivasis to treat tumours. Does such information lead to manufacture of medicines?

Certainly. The alkaloids like Vincristine and Vinblastine are extracted from the periwinkle plant, a medicinal species native to Madagascar, that was used by the aborigines there. Scientists used the newest methods to study it and discovered that it contained certain alkaloids that could produce many changes in the human body. Today it is used to treat childhood leukemia. Thus the foundation of all research is traditional lore and local knowledge. Analysing it scientifically is a good practice.  Many plants hide a lot of goodness that could lead to great discoveries. The opposite can also happen. Many others may conceal danger and poison that we are unaware of. That can be revealed only through modern studies. For instance, there are 25 different varieties of purple yam in the forests of south India. This tuber is the staple diet of most adivasis. But chemical analysis revealed that a few varieties found in the wild contain excessive amounts of a compound named diosgenin, especially in a variety called Dioscorea alata. It is known to cause male impotence. The low population of adivasis may be due to their regular consumption of this wild purple yam. If we are able to amalgamate scientific rigour and traditional knowledge, it will be very useful to humans.

I have a friend in Thrissur, Dr Prasad who is an Ayurvedic doctor. He told me that people have a tendency to consume even panacea in excess quantities. African bird’s eye chilly, for instance, is said to be good for curing some disease. They consume it till side-effects begin to appear. He said this comes from a blind belief that panacea will not do any harm.

Yes. With the growing popularity of social media like facebook, unauthentic information about treatment systems spreads everywhere. For instance, people are advised to drink gooseberry juice twice a day because it is a potent source of Vitamin C. But excess of even good things is bad. Like African bird’s eye chilly, bilimbi is recommended as good for reducing cholesterol, increasing blood circulation and improving general health. That has been proven by studies too. But drinking its juice in excess quantities may prove harmful. It has plenty of oxalates which will form calcium oxalate crystals, and cause kidney stones and bladder stones. These are good to take as food but not to be eaten in excess. Traditional meals are balanced because they contain all proteins, carbohydrates, fat and vitamins. But no single item should be eaten in excess. African bird’s eye chilly or bilimbi is usually eaten as pickles. Or, combined with grated coconut which has a neutralizing effect. And these items are eaten as food in small quantities. But if they are consumed as medicine, they will do more harm than good.

When I came to the TBGRI for the first time, you took me along. You mentioned that it conserves more than 5,000 species. Are they all native to Kerala?

No. We concentrate on the Western Ghats mainly and aim at conserving the species found there. There is no other institution like this in India.

Are all the 5,000 species from the Western Ghats?

Importance is given to them but, as a Tropical Botanic Garden, it has a collection of plants from all the tropical regions of the world. Only then will it serve an educational purpose. For instance, certain trees belonging to a few genuses are not seen in India, like Acacia or Eucalyptus. But we Malayalis have known them for a long time now.

Not for long, sir. I think Eucalyptus came in 1978 or so. That was the time when Eucalyptus oil became very popular. The tree began to be planted in 1977 or ’78. By 1980, when it was found that the tree sucks up a lot of ground water and is used to dry marshy land, a campaign was started to discourage its cultivation. But by then, they had been planted extensively. With Hindustan News Print factory and Gwalior Rayons using it as raw material, Eucalyptus became very popular. Sir, when I brought you here for the first time, nearly six years back, we had not put up the Miyawaki forest here. But then you had pointed out nearly 40 different of plants by the time we ascended this hill, and said you saw more than 100 varieties here. It was after your visit that I started increasing the variety. Now we have more than 400-500 species. You also showed me an orchid here that was either going extinct or extremely difficult to find.

Yes, I remember having spotted Holostemma and Indian snakeroot here.
And an orchid too.
Yes, Eulophia.

How can this kind of knowledge, gathered through the years, be propagated among the public? How do you teach them that plants have to be conserved? I ask this because when we decide to construct a house, our first act is to clear the land completely and wipe out all the plants. Many of them are medicinal ones. But people are not aware of it. How can we spread awareness?

That is an important issue. People always think about usefulness either in the form of food or as a source of income. But this attitude has been changing of late. Many people take pictures of plants or trees, send them via email and enquire whether they should be retained or chopped down, whether they will cause trouble or be of some use and so on. For instance, the other day, one man enquired about a tree close to his house. He wanted to know whether he should keep it. We said that it was a Rohituka tree, not commonly seen here, and advised him to retain it if possible and even make saplings because it had many uses.

What is it?
In traditional medicine, the bark is used in various preparations. We pay a lot of attention to spreading awareness among school children too by involving them in many programmes. What is heartening is that they show greater interest and have better knowledge in this field than adults. Whenever we conduct quiz programmes, we mention the importance of the plants, explain why they should be conserved, talk about biodiversity and the Western Ghats and so on. They are greatly interested in these subjects. The feedback we have received is that the coming generations will show more care.

I have heard from my mother and aunts that as part of post-partum treatment a kind of medicated water is prepared using leaves of coffee, the Portia tree, the Jack tree, and many others.

Yes, and leaves of the Niepa bark tree also were used in olden times.

The other day a friend told me that when a 150-year-old house at Vaikom made of wood was razed, he found layers of Niepa tree leaves compacted at its base. When I asked you about it, you said it was to prevent termite infestation. I noticed a lot of Niepa tree saplings at your institute. At my sister’s garden plot, I spotted four Niepa bark trees. Its flowers and fruits are hard to forget because of the unusualness of their form. They resemble the Corona virus.

That is one of the important roles we play – introducing unfamiliar species of plants to people. So when we introduce Niepa bark tree to them, they are wonder-struck. Most people don’t recognize even the Jangli badam. The scientific world has the responsibility of informing people. The common folk cannot be blamed totally. Many are aware of conserving plants even when there is no money to make out of them. When they buy a plot, they usually clear the land to either grow banana plants or to construct houses. But now the trend is changing. If they see an unfamiliar tree, they retain it. That is a very positive sign.

When the daughter of one of my classmates delivered a child, my friend sent me a list of 10 plants whose leaves he needed for the post-partum treatment. I could supply nine varieties from here. That was when I learnt that a fistful of leaves of each variety is added to rice and cooked, to be eaten for three days. One was cotton, another was Portia tree. He wanted Bee sting bush too but I didn’t have it here. The other, Narrow-leaved canthium is found in great numbers. But we prune it heavily because of the thorns. Then, Mountain knotgrass, spreading hogwood and other leaves that were to be taken for 30-40 days. Similarly, when my wife had a fatty liver complaint, someone told me to make a curry of spreading hogwood. This was a staple in our meals earlier. Its not available although it grows easily. I have grown it in my terrace. In fact, this as well as False daisy Periwinkle and Leucas aspera grow almost like weeds. Now the question is: Is there a market for medicines that are extracted from such plants? Of course, it is used in Ayurvedic medicines and consumed in Kerala. Is it viable for people to grow and supply them to Ayurvedic pharmaceutical companies?

That is an important question. When you enter the field of medicinal plant cultivation, you need to look at its commercial possibilities too. Otherwise, there will be financial loss. The way out is to first find out whether there are people to purchase the plant products you cultivate, and then to enter into a contract with them. If a person concocts medicinal oil for healthy hair growth, he will require plants like False daisy, Water hyssop and True indigo. It is pointless to give him Indian leadwort. So an understanding has to be arrived at before you begin cultivation. Getting a regular market for these is difficult. But the State Medicinal Plants Board (SMPB) has come up with many initiatives to promote marketing. Oushadhi is an Ayurvedic medicine manufacturing unit run by the Government of Kerala which get farmers to produce the medicinal plants it wants and purchases them.

I hear there is a co-operative society in Thrissur that does farming in 400 acres of land and supplies medicines to Oushadhi. It is remunerative, I understand. My question is: Are pesticides used in a big way in the cultivation of medicinal plants? For instance, a plant like the country mallow grows commonly in our countryside, and it grows without any special care.

But the point is, when you go commercial, a certain amount of yield has to be ensured, and that may demand the use of pesticides. In such a case, there will be exclusive cultivation of certain species. What happens now is that a plant like Country mallow is sourced from many places and given to companies. The market price of the root of this plant is actually more than the material cost. That is because it includes labour charges. So people take Country mallow from the wild. But when we cultivate it, the rates will differ.

Earlier, plants like Country mallow and Touch-me-not were identified by touching. Now the Country mallow is not to be seen.

That’s true. There is a huge demand for it because it is required in Ayurvedic preparations. But even when it is harvested, nobody grows it to replace what is taken. That’s why it is hard to get.

Once when I went to a Dhanwantari Vaidya Sala at Thodupuzha, I saw Ksheerabala medicine being made. One kilo of ground Country mallow was added to one kilo each of oil and milk, and heated till the mixture got reduced to one kilo. Then they wrote the figure ‘1’ on a board to indicate the first day of preparation. This was done for 101 consecutive days until only one kilo of oil remained.

The essence would have penetrated the oil by then.

By then, 100 kilos each of Country mallow and milk would have been added. But the final product would still be only one kilo of oil. Naturally, this was very costly and reserved only for their patients. It is not sold outside. This is made to cure rheumatism.

Such medicines are difficult to make these days because pure materials are not readily available. That is a crisis that the Ayurvedic medicine industry faces now.

Regarding the growth of plants, does it change according to the place where they are in? I have seen Country mallow as growing very close to the ground. But a pillar in the Kidangoor temple is carved out of Country mallow wood. Is it because the plant grew in the wild?

No. that cannot happen. Country mallow cannot become a tree because it is not a woody plant.

Recently, I saw a Jujube tree in Kannur that was fairly big. Almost like a Teak tree. But the variety I have seen here is small, and because it has thorns, it is usually pruned.

There are two varieties of Jujube here. The wild variety has thorns and is a climber. It has a tree form too. That’s what you saw. What you see here is Ziziphus oenoplia, a climber that spreads and climbs like Acacia. The tree is Ziziphus jujuba. But Country mallow is not known to have a tree variety.

You’ve seen the Miyawaki forest here and witnessed its rapid growth every three months. Will the trees in such a forest have the same qualities as those growing naturally? Perhaps that needs to be studied closely.

Just because it grows rapidly does not mean its qualities may be poorer. Its quick growth may be due to physiological stress because there is the element of tight competition in this model. Their quality is decided by the gradual chemical changes they undergo or their metabolic activity. If a plant gets an atmosphere that is suitable for its metabolic activities, it will show its natural qualities. We need to be careful about the roots of the plants that we source for our medicines. And that is where your question becomes relevant. It is said that only the roots of a 20- or 22-year-old Bengal quince is taken to make medicine. So we need to study whether the fast growing Bengal quince will show the same quality.

Here we have Indian trumpet flower whose roots are also used.
Yes, for Dashamoolam.
Indeed. It is now three or four years old. So it can be used in a couple of years’ time.
Yes. We can take those roots then and make a comparative study.

What about the other factors like differences in the quality of air, temperature, air quality, dust absorption and so on?

They can withstand most of the variations that are experienced in tropical climate. But take the case of Gulgul which is seen in Gujarat, Saurashtra, Pakistan and those regions. When that plant is grown in Kerala, we see changes in its chemical properties. But such changes do not happen in most of the plants in the Western Ghats. Maybe only in some cases, like sandalwood for instance. The quality of sandalwood growing in Marayoor is not seen anywhere else. So, some species exhibit this habitat-specificity in its products. But usually this is not the case.

Sir, you and your father have written an interesting book on the plants mentioned in the Bible. Can you tell us something about it? Malayalis will be interested in it. What inspired you to write it? When the Bible got translated into Malayalam, the names of many plants were wrongly translated. You and your father have indicated the correct names. Can you give us the details?

We wanted to give information about those plants that people were not very familiar with or did not know at all. It was only after we made out a list of all the plants referred to in the Bible and began a detailed study of them that we realized the huge difference in translation. I will not call it the translator’s mistake because the aim was to introduce names that were familiar to the readers. And in most places in the translation, those differences did not bring great alterations in meaning. For instance, there is a clause in the Bible which reads: “Look at the lilies of the field”. The Malayalam translation for “lilies” is given as “lotuses”. But the lotus never grew in Israel during that time. The word for “field” in Malayalam refers to paddy field. But in Israel, it actually meant a water-logged area where a type of Anemone grew which had clusters of very beautiful flowers. The translator’s attempt was only to refer to a very beautiful flower in order to indicate the care that the Creator took to make the flower. Our attempt was to show the common people which exact plant was named in the original Bible.

How many plants are mentioned in the Bible?
Almost 110.

In a similar fashion, Gita Govindam is a composition where plants are an integral part of the text. It makes references to nearly 48 plants. I have planted 40 of those varieties mentioned in it. I’m yet to get seven or eight varieties. One of them is the Indian bay leaf tree. Its leaves are longer that those of Henna, and are deep green.

They are fragrant, aren’t they?
I don’t know. And it is a bush, not a tree. The leaves are the size of those of the Peacock flower. Planted in clumps, it looks almost like Henna forest.

Where did you see it?
In Orissa. There is even a garden in Orissa where the Indian bay leaf is specially grown. I went there to see this tree. When we talk about plants that cannot be grown here, I remember the case of Nervilia araguana. Its saplings will be available only during rainy season. Once I got it but that did not take root. I’m planning to plant it again.  It’s a type of orchid, isn’t it?
Yes. It’s Nervilia. It has medicinal properties.

Mention of it is made at several points in the text. Another flower is the blue lotus but that is a figment of the poet’s imagination.
There is no blue lotus. Only a water lily that has such a colour.

Sir, is there any exercise that you can suggest for people who are interested in plants?

Those who are interested in plants should observe plants. That is the most important thing. You can use modern apps to help you. There is a Leaf Search App. But it contains many mistakes. It’s almost like Google Search. A lot of wrong information is put up there. Therefore the best way to learn is to touch the plants, study its shape, breathe in its fragrance, and permit all the information to seep into the mind. That is the simplest method. Many people are interested in it, and approach us. That is a very positive development. Many are keen to grow plants. Many species are in the brink of extinction. One is Jungle geranium, whose flowers come in huge clusters even when it is in the shade. But it is disappearing.  The same is the case with Gardenia, or firecracker flower. The interesting fact is that most of them have medicinal value and are suited to our climate. None of it is seen these days. The Ashoka tree too. So also Crape jasmine which has many petals. It also has medicinal uses. Many of the ornamental plants that we used to have in our gardens are medicinal plants too.

As a child, when I had some eye ailment, petals of Crape jasmine were put in water for overnight soaking. The next day, I was asked to drip that liquid into my eyes. Similarly, when I ate unripe mangoes for several consecutive days, I developed stomach pain. My mother slit shallots, kept them in buttermilk for two days and then made me drink it. In three days, the trouble disappeared. That was how I developed an interest in plants. When I hurt myself against a pointed stake which left a big hole in my leg, shallots and basil leaves were crushed and applied there. The wound mended well and no stitches were needed. The use of traditional healing methods at home was what drew my interest towards this subject. This knowledge should not be dismissed as unscientific and ignored. Rather the scientific aspects of such home remedies should definitely be studied by people like you.

The most important thing is to conserve all over plants, learn more about them. Only then will we stop destroying them. For instance, if people come to recognize Ironwood tree, they will preserve it because they know Lord Krishna’s skin tone is described as similar to the blue colour of its flower. Thank you sir for sharing information that will be of great use to a lot of people. We will be showing your designation and email id at the end so that people can contact you to clear doubts.